Without holiness no man shall see God

 

Now, consider this—

"You cannot study the Bible diligently and earnestly without being struck by an obvious fact—the whole matter of personal holiness is highly important to God!" — A. W. Tozer

  

***

Two verses that any mature evangelical Christian must seriously consider—including we Pentecostals, are found in the epistles of Paul. The first is 1 Timothy 3:15—

“[If] I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.”

And the second one is Ephesians 3:10, where Paul declared that it was God’s intent—

 “[That] through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places.”

Interestingly enough, nowhere does Paul declare that the Scriptures provide that certainty. Now, bear with me before you get all riled up and get ready to anathematize me, because I am not through yet.

The Church is the foundation on which truth rests, and the framework, including the pillars that give that truth structure. Truth, as much as we would like to believe to the contrary, does not stand alone. Each nugget of truth stands in relationship to all truth, or it is not truth at all. This is just one way of saying that truth (with the exception of God, or course) is contingent—such truth depends on something greater than itself not just to function, but to make sense.

The Church is no different, either. The Church does not stand alone. For sure the Apostles and Prophets with Christ as the Chief Cornerstone form the foundation (Ephesians 2:20).  We, the fellowship—the ecclesia, the building blocks must rest solidly on this solid foundation, or we will crumble. 

Paul also reminds us that we—the Church, are also a body. He therefore writes—

Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. (1 Corinthians 12:12 NIV)

That is to say that without Christ there is no Church, and without the Church that mystical body disintegrates into a corpse.

Trumpet the inerrancy of Scripture all you want, but I am here to tell you that unless we as the Church do not embody the very likeness of Christ in holiness—not just a passive holiness, but one that is actively righteous, then we can never be “the manifold wisdom of God that is now made known.”

Scripture contains truth, that’s for sure, but it remains a dead letter unless it comes to life through the Church. You and I have that responsibility—that is, to be “living letters seen and read by all men.” (2 Corinthians 3:2)

For sure, we are not saved by works, but we are rewarded according to the good works we perform. Everything else is wood, hay and stubble which will be purged. Check it out, it’s in the Bible—

For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.  If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. (1 Corinthians 3:11-13 NIV)

 Now, if you disagree, please explain Paul’s comment that—

“For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.” (Ephesians 2:10 NIV)

Therefore, let us continue to work out our salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12) for—

 We must persevere to the end if we would gain eternal life (Romans 2:7)

Sober words, but none-the-less, Biblical in every sense of the word, “for without holiness no man shall see the Lord” (Hebrews 12:14).

And, oh, by-the-way, what is holiness? Obedience is holiness, pure and simple, that's the answer in a nutshell. Nothing less, nothing more.

Just remember, we are not alone on this journey,

Jim R/

 

Roman Synod on the Church, Evangelicals and Pentecostals

Bishop Denis Madden

1. The Changing Landscape of Catholic Evangelical Relations

The Second Vatican Council of the mid 1960’s marked a watershed in the Catholic Church with regard to her relationship with other Christian communities in the United States, as was true throughout the world. In the years immediately following the Council, the Catholic Church ventured into emerging and deepening relationships with many of the historical mainline Protestant Churches. But dialogue between the American Catholic community and the American Evangelical community seemed the furthest at reach. Separated by years of difficulties and mistrust built atop strongly held differences on doctrine, there appeared little immediate hope toward warming relationships between the two communities. An illustrative example is Harold Ockenga, the first president of the National Association of Evangelicals, who lead the effort to stop John F. Kennedy from being elected president on the basis that he was Catholic. 1

Yet the tumultuous years of the 1970’s, 80’s and 90’s, with the vast social changes transpiring on America’s cultural landscape, brought an unforeseen consequence. Evangelicals and Catholics increasingly found themselves as players on the same field, and often each other’s most like-minded and dependable ally. There were a number of factors that contributed to this phenomenon.

a. The sexual revolution and Roe v Wade.

The sexual revolution of the 1960’s and 70’s brought radical social change in the US, iconized in the 1972 landmark Supreme Court decision legalizing abortion. Many mainstream Protestant churches embraced the legalization of abortion and an ever-widening liberality of sexual expression and practice as the cultural norm in subsequent years.

Rooted in strong convictions about the sanctity of human life, sexual morality, and the role of the family in educating children, Catholics and Evangelical found themselves heavily engaged in related social issues, and in one another a partner with political and social will. Everyday Evangelicals and Catholics were encountering each other on the picket-lines in front of abortion clinics, on the streets of Washington DC marching for life, and before the public square defending the nature of the family. A rising cooperation between Catholics and Evangelicals in the public square over values we both held dear was becoming the new norm.

b. The Growth of the American Evangelicalism

Evangelical Christianity experienced a demographic burst in the US throughout the 1970’s and 80’s, bringing an increasing numbers of highly educated Evangelicals to positions of greater political, social and intellectual leadership in the US. As a result, the Evangelical community began searching for deeper philosophical traditions and legal language to enhance its argumentation in defense of a Christian world view. They found much forage in Catholic social doctrine. Evangelicals were the first to comment on their surprise at the discovery.

Similarly, many Catholic activists found in the vast Evangelical social institutions, such as Focus on the Family, The Family Research Council, and the Evangelical home-schooling movements, energy, enthusiasm and models from which to borrow, learn, and imitate unhesitatingly.

c. Rise of the Catholic Charismatic Movement-

Since the 1960’s the Catholic charismatic movement has had a presence in the United States, perhaps reaching a climax in the 80’s and 90’s. While retaining a commitment to Catholic teaching, doctrine, and sacramental life, the charismatic movement introduced to the mainstream of the Catholic Church forms of worship and expression that appeared far more akin to Pentecostal revival movements than the liturgical traditions of our Church, emphasizing baptism in the Spirit and the immediate presence of the Holy Spirit and his gifts in the life of the Christian. In this shared experience, Pentecostal, Evangelical and Catholic communities were unexpectedly side-by-side with one another once again, this time in that which is most intimate to the Christian, in his worship. Pentecostal and Evangelical pastors spoke of their surprise to find a growing number of Catholics attending charismatic worship services on Sundays, only to arrive late or leave early because they were rushing to or from their Catholic Mass. Eventually, Protestant charismatic communities began to include well-known Catholic charismatic speakers in their rosters alongside protestant speakers, and vice-versa. 2 This dialogue of shared worship and spirituality went a long way to thaw age-old misconceptions and mistrust between members of the two communities, more easily able to recognize the person in heartfelt worship at their side as a fellow Christian imbued with the power of the Holy Spirit.2

Many Catholic bishops and pastors raised their eyebrows in concern over the emergence of the Catholic charismatic movement. But as the years went on, the presence of the charismatic movement in the US proved to be a force of revitalization in the Church. In many places the charismatic renewal gave birth to a new kind of “dynamic orthodoxy” distinguished for fusing the energy and evangelizing spirit characteristic of the Evangelical churches with a deep love for Catholic tradition. This became particularly attractive to the youth, yielding a new generation of faithful, theologians and vocations in every area of Church life. A phrase has been coined with increasing frequency in young Catholic circles: “Evangelical Catholicism.” Appearing in pastoral programs of dioceses and youth or university student movements around the country, the term is meant to describe a fusion between a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and an enthusiastic commitment to the spreading of the Gospel, both characteristics of American Evangelical Christianity, with a love and appreciation for Catholic traditions and life. This year, George Weigel published his most recent book by the title “Evangelical Catholicism: Deep Reform in the 21st Century Church”3, in which he describes the future era of Catholicism with a vision that resonates with the same spirit.

2. Historical Moments in Our Relationship

The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops held official dialogues with the Southern Baptist Convention from 1978 to 2000, engaging in theological discourse over topics such as the environment, poverty, racism, sickness and healing, scripture and salvation. Blessed John Paul II’s historic visit to the United States in 1987 was facilitated by Billy Graham who provided the platform and set for the papal event in the University of South Carolina stadium, and who attended the ecumenical service.

The 1994 document “Evangelicals and Catholics Together” 4 and its 1998 counterpart, while not an official documents representing the United States Bishops but works of independent Catholic theologians and Evangelical colleagues, were landmark documents spelling out the need for Protestants and Catholics to deliver a common witness to the modern world on the eve of the third millennium.

Evangelical and Pentecostal individuals have joined Catholic individuals in sustained conversations on sociological and political research and theology. Jesuit Father Tom Rausch edited a book with help from Richard Mouw and others, Catholics and Evangelicals: Do They Share a Common Future?5 Ronald Sider and Dianne Knippers edited a volume, Toward an Evangelical Public Policy, which included one Catholic voice. This was an important volume because it contained the statement that became the National Association of Evangelical’s policy statement, “For the Health of the Nation.”6

Institutes such as the Center for Catholic and Evangelical Dialogue of Baylor University and the Center for Catholic and Evangelical Theology of Loyola University in Baltimore have emerged, producing ongoing scholarship on Evangelical-Catholic relations. Georgetown University was host to the Evangelical-Catholic Dialogue on the Common Good and Public Policy from 2008 through 2013, convened by two of America's most prominent religious leaders; Pastor Rick Warren and Theodore Cardinal McCarrick.

Last year in Rome, Dr. Lamar Vest, President of the American Bible Society, became the first Pentecostal to address the Synod of Catholic Bishops on the New Evangelization, the 25th session since Pope Paul VI established the synod in 1967.7 Also addressing the synod was an American representing the Baptist World Alliance, Dr. Timothy George, Dean of the Beeson Divinity School of Samford University.8 While hardly a comprehensive study, these developments can be seen as signs of the times of a rising tide of Catholic- Evangelical relations in the United States.

3. The Primary Issues Catholics and Evangelicals Face Today

There continues to be an ever-growing list of issues which are of common concern to Evangelicals and Catholics in our nation today. We continue to be strong partners in the fight for a right to life from conception until natural death. We have stood together in the defense of traditional marriage as between one man and one woman. We collaborate on many social justice issues combatting poverty, discrimination, and injustice. And recently we find ourselves side-by-side in an increasing battle to protect the first amendment right to religious freedom in our nation, and a human right for religious freedom abroad.

4. Continued Obstacles to Catholic Evangelical Relations

There are still issues of real concern to our individual communities regarding one another. One such issue that comes to mind is the question of converts and how we relate to one another as fellow Christians. For the Catholic Bishops there is concern over the loss of Catholic identity in immigrant communities in the United States that are traditionally Catholic, as well as among the faithful in largely Catholic developing nations.

Catholics read scripture with critical tools and in light of a long tradition of commentary and application of scripture to daily life, acknowledging the teaching office of the church. Evangelicals hold to a belief in the inerrancy of scripture. This is a point of deep historical difference between us. While Vatican II may not have resolved the issue of the relation between Scripture and Tradition, it clarified it to the satisfaction of those Protestant scholars who were watching its outcome carefully, that it was moving forward from a position that was reactionary to the Reformation’s emphasis on Bible to one acknowledging a serious need for better study and scholarship. In recent years,

Protestant and Catholic scholarship in cooperation has made available better translations and resources.

As we look toward the horizon of Catholic-Evangelical relations in the United States, we can emphasize the positive if we allow ourselves to delve deeper in what we truly hold in common—the Word of God, our love for Our Lord, and our desire to see Him reign in the hearts of all men and in society at large. Differences in theology should not continue to be an obstacle to our warm and congenial collaboration as fellow Christians who, motivated by the values of the Gospel we hold dear, meet together side-by-side in the public square to combat secularism and relativism while building a more just and charitable society on solid Judeo-Christian values rooted in the natural law, with respect for human life, freedom of conscience and freedom of religion as non-negotiable foundational tenets.

---------------------------------------------------
End Notes:

1 Mark S. Massa, S.J., Anti-Catholicism in America: The Last Acceptable Prejudice (New York: Crossroad Publishing Company, 2003), 77-78.

3 Weigel, George. “Evangelical Catholicism: Deep Reform in the 21st Century Church” Basic Books, 2013.
4 http://www.firstthings.com/article/2007/01/evangelicals--catholics-together-the-christian-mission-in-the-third-millennium-
2 Olson, Roger E. “Catholic-Evangelical Dialogue” March 4, 2012.
5 Thomas P. Rausch, ed., Catholics and Evangelicals: Do They Share a Common Future? (New York: Paulist Press, 2000).
6 Ronald J. Sider and Diane Knippers, Toward an Evangelical Public Policy (Cedar Rapids, Iowa: Baker Books, 2005).

7 http://www.news.va/en/news/presentation-of-the-synod-on-the-new-evangelisation

8 See the paper by Bro. Jeffrey Gros, “The New Evangelization: Unity in Proclamation and the Proclamation of Unity,” soon to be published. Vest’s intervention can be found here:
http://www.vatican.va/news_services/press/sinodo/documents/bollettino_25_xiii-ordinaria-2012/02_inglese/b07_02.html#INTERVENTION_OF_THE_SPECIAL_GUEST_DR._LAMAR_VEST,_PRESIDENT_OF_THE_AMERICAN_BIBLE_SOCIETY_(UNITED_STATES_OF_AMERICA).
George’s intervention can be found here: http://www.vatican.va/news_services/press/sinodo/documents/bollettino_25_xiii-ordinaria-2012/02_inglese/b19_02.html#-_Rev._Dr._Timothy_GEORGE,_Dean_of_the_Beeson_Divinity_School_of_Samford_University_(UNITED_STATES_OF_AMERICA)_

Headed nowhere, but making record time?

Now, consider this—

“If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there.”— Lewis Carroll

***

The last few days my thoughts have riveted on Paul’s comment to young Timothy, when he wrote—

 ‘[If] I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth’.” (1 Tim. 3:15)

I guess that one of the reasons that the verse has captured my attention is that it is a pretty inclusive statement. The church, not scripture, not theological discourse or philosophical opinions; but rather, the Church is the pillar and bulwark of the truth.

Now, the sobering fact is, if that be the case then you and I have the heavy responsibility to embrace that church—which, however, we find out is us. Yes, us. We are that mystical body—or the ekklésia, that is, “the people called out from the world and to God” as the Greek indicates. Of course, the first question that comes to mind is ‘Where is that Church?’ Once you ask that question, however, you will be surprised how many people will step up and claimed to have found it. One of those knocked on my door yesterday and handed us a tract which had a lot of amazing things to say about their church—which, just happened to be the Jehovah Witnesses. The Mormons came by days earlier, and of course we just recently received a nice little invitation in a pretty envelope to check out the new Episcopal Church just down the road from us. That I did, and quickly exited when I discovered that not only were they will but they were also eager to sanction same-sex marriages.

So back to square one. What or where is that church—that pillar and bulwark of the truth?

Well, one thing for sure, it is Biblical, but then that all depends on who is interpreting the Bible, doesn’t it? When I was a boy, we used to sing that old song, ‘A Glorious Church’ that was without spot or wrinkle. Remember that one? Here the first stanza and the chorus, just to refresh your memory—

Do you hear them coming, brother

Thronging up the steeps of light,

Clad in glorious shining garments —

Bloodwashed garments pure and white?

Refrain

'Tis a glorious Church without spot or wrinkle,

Washed in the blood of the Lamb.

'Tis a glorious Church, without spot of wrinkle,

Washed in the blood of the Lamb.

 (Written by: Ralph E. Hudson)

Now, after singing that chorus over a few times, most often some sister or brother who had been washed would begin to get happy, and they were not ashamed to let everyone around them know it either. Some of the times these happy souls were content with just shouting out a few hearty ‘Amens’ or ‘preach it brother.’ Other times, however, some would breakdown and start crying or laughing, and, of course, being Pentecostals a smattering of  ‘tongues’ going off throughout the congregation was a common thing. Don’t see much of this happening these days, though.

Excesses? Of course, there were excesses. That was nothing new, however. The church in Corinth had that, too. So, it was excused. Pastors were not apt to clamp down too hard on the excess, though, because ‘tongues’ seemed to be the authenticating mark. This was the church without spot or wrinkle. But, was it? No, not really. It was the church, but a soiled one at that. Oh, they had been washed. They were forgiven and on their way to Heaven, but spotless? Hardly.

So, what’s the point? What are you driving at, Jim?

Simply this—truth cannot be soiled with excesses; otherwise, it would not be truth, would it? Now, while you put that in your thinking cap let me say this. You will never find a perfect church, but you will find perfect truth in an imperfect church. Spiritual imperfection is not heresy, it is simply immaturity.  We’re not talking morals here, we’re talking practice. So, least we get sidetracked, let’s keep in mind that we ‘blood washed’ saints don’t have all the answers, but we do have the truth. We have Christ, and Christ in His fulness. And, really, in the long run, that’s enough.

So, since I know where I am going, any road is not good enough for me.

Now, to be honest with you, this is precisely why I have stuck with my denomination which I believe has been guided into all truth by the Holy Spirit (John 16:13) as it was revealed to His Apostles and Prophets which are the foundation of the Church with Jesus Christ himself as the Chief Corner Stone (Ephesians 2:20).

Thus, in a real sense, I am a restorationsist and fully aware of the challenges inherent in that position.

Remember, we’re in this journey together,

Jim/--

Roman Catholicism by a former Catholic

This evangelical ministry by Dr Joseph Mizzi is dedicated to Roman Catholics who desire to know how to be saved. It is our sincere desire to proclaim to you the Good News of Jesus Christ, because the Gospel is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes.

• Answers from the Bible
• Are Works Necessary for Salvation?
• The Forgiveness of Sins
• Baptism
• The Bread of Life
• Blessed Mary
• The Immaculate Conception
• The Assumption
• Mary Worship? (Mary Ann Collins)
• Evangelical and Catholics Divided
• Church Unity
• John Paul II and Benedict XVI
• The Worship of Images
• A Brief Guide to Catholicism Today (Alan Howe)
• Pope Benedict on Justification
• An Evaluation of Natural Family Planning

Life has its ups and downs, its turnarounds . . .

Malachi 3:6 declares, “I am the Lord, I change not.” So with the poet we prayerfully say,

Change and decay in all around I see—

O thou who changest not, abide with me!

— Henry F. Lyte

Life has its ups and downs, its turnarounds—that's for sure! Jesus was a great optimist. Even with the whole world crumbling around him, His faith in the future never wavered. Think of it, with the cross casting a shadow of doom and doubt over his disciples he had the courage and foresight to turn to the dying thief and promise him paradise, and to entrust His own mother to John the Beloved for safekeeping. Yes, He knew there would be a tomorrow, and He was confident that His Father and ours would see Him through this terrible ordeal, and that He would rise yet on another day to live forevermore.

Life here on earth can be tough, but we needn't worry—it's passing. It's like a vapor, James says. And, for those in the know, there's a better day coming.

No, that's not morbid thinking, that's reality. Our only permanency now and in our tomorrows is God and the sooner we learn that the better. We may never know what a day will bring but we know who is in charge. It was with this confidence that Moses said to the children of Israel,

“Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid or terrified because of them, for the LORD your God goes with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you." (Deut. 3:16)

Friends, I must tell you that the longer I live the more see change and decay, the rise and fall of great men and women, the total futility of placing faith and hope in the transiency of anything this old world has to offer. So, you are fortunate enough to own the Clippers basketball franchise and cavort with whores then fain mental illness and sell the club for a cool 2 billion dollars, what good will that do in the long run?

I am reminded once again of the words in the first stanza of that great poem by C.T. Studd, the famous cricketer and missionary, which reads,

“Two little lines I heard one day,

Traveling along life’s busy way;

Bringing conviction to my heart,

And from my mind would not depart;

Only one life, ’twill soon be past,

Only what’s done for Christ will last.”

Friends, we must focus on that. Let’s not be lured into complacency comforts of life or discouraged with the hardships.

As always, I am with you on the journey,

Discouraged? Read this . . .

Back in 1973 E F Schumacher wrote a best seller called Small is Beautiful: a study of economics as if people mattered which I read with great interest. Schumacher was a minimalist, that’s for sure. More than that, however, he was also right. Small is not only beautiful but it is Biblical as well. Take for instance when Jesus declared—

 “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the Kingdom.” 
  (Matt.5:3)

In other words, pride won't cut it in the Kingdom. Pump your ego up with all the positive self-help pep that you wish and you are still at square one as far as God is concerned.

The Beatitudes intended to deflate our puffed up ego, don’t they? In other words, Jesus was saying in the verse quoted above, ‘You think you are a hot shot? Well, you’re not. Get rid of all that hot air, and only then will you be ready for the kingdom.”

In other words, ‘You want to be great? Then, become small for small is beautiful.’

In case one objects, just consider that before Jesus himself became great, he became small. “He emptied himself,” Paul says in Philippians, “and took on the very nature of a servant.” (Phil. 2:7)

Jesus was saying to the world in essence that small is beautiful.

Interestingly enough, however, for most, including most Christians, the rule of thumb is ‘more is better, and more than that is great. I need all I can get!’ There comes a point in most men’s life, however, that needs subtly morph into greed; and unlike old wine, greed does not improve over time.

Now, mind you, greed comes in all shapes and forms. The most severe form and harmful at that is documentary series on A&E called “The Hoarders”, which portrays the real-life struggles and treatment of people who suffer from compulsive hoarding.

‘That’s not greed’ I hear someone protest, that’s a mental illness. True, but chances are it did not start out that way, it developed over time. And, furthermore, if it is not a choice they make—compulsive or not; why then do they respond to counseling intervention? Really in some ways these poor souls are no worse off than billionaires cutting billion dollar contracts and amassing manipulative fortunes that can even make congress dance to their tune. Nothing satisfies them. There’s never enough. Nothing wrong with wealth, mind you. But, we will however, be judged on how well we manage it. ‘To whom must is given, much is required’ is as true today as it was the day Jesus spoke the words.

Life is all about choices, isn't it?

I am yours for the journey,

Jim R/

The aliens among us . . .

Now, consider this—

Walking to one of my favorite Mexican restaurants recently, I notice a short little Mayan looking lady scurrying along behind me. Just before I arrived, I noticed that she went down a side alley and then through the back door of another eatery. Dishwasher or perhaps a cook, I thought. Wonder if she has a green card? I mused. I didn't dwell on that very long, however, since I could tell by the cautious look on her face and the colorful Latino blouse and skirt she had on, plus the handmade sandals that chances were she didn't even know what a green card was.

Later that same evening, I was watching the evening news and a lady from Honduras with her child in tow hurried towards a border agent and asked if she was in America. When told that she was, she fell on her knees and begged the agent to let her stay. It was a touching scene; one that brought tears to my eyes.

Friends, I am well aware that we cannot take every stranger in that wants to live in America, and I don't have the answer to the immigration problem, but I do know that God will hold us accountable for how we treat these desperate people. I know something else, also, we are not getting it done with a congress that continues to haggle with a do-nothing administration that can find enough money to bail out corporate America but no enough to seriously tackle illegal immigration. Now, mind you, I am not of the opinion that snatching these poor immigrants as soon as the cross the border and hustling them back to the crime ridden stench and poverty from which they came is the answer either. Something more fundamental than that must be done, and done with a strong resolve tempered compassion that results in more than just pity.

Personally, I commend the efforts of the Catholic Relief organizations, but privately wonder what we Protestants—yes, including the Assemblies of God are doing about it. Tragedy comes in many forms: tsunamis, hurricanes, drought, and medical epidemics. These are not the only form of tragedy, however; the border crisis is one, also. Yes, we can pray, and I certainly believe in the power of prayer, but we need to put some real legs to our prayers and do something constructive to help solve the problem. What a golden opportunity to show the love of Jesus by helping these poor people. So, let’s get busy.

Well, as usual, this is only one man’s opinion; but in this case I am pretty sure that God is of the same opinion, too.

Remember, we're not alone on this journey,

Jim

P. S.  Several of my national friends from North East India would love to attend the Assemblies of God 100 Years Centennial Celebration that is scheduled for AUG 5-6, 2014, in Springfield, Missouri. Please pray for these men and if you wish to help let me know. Thanks!!

Who were the morning stars that sang together, and all the sons of God who shouted for joy at creation? Job 38:7

Question:

When God created the universe HE was in trinity, but then, who are the ,'' When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?'' (KJV)?

My Answer:

Couple of observations here: One, what is a son? Apparently, a created being can be a son (as was Adam and prior to that the angels, including Lucifer); and men can be adopted as sons (as are we); there can be an only begotten son (as with Jesus). So, the word son is not a static term; it has multiple meanings. Some speculate that the phrase: "In the Beginning God created" as a process, which obviously it was. The heavens were created first, apparently, and this would indicate all those that dwell in Heaven were part of that process which would include angels. However, I prefer accept the fact that we can push rational thinking beyond rational limits if we are not careful.

Consider for instance, where did God come from? Who created him? Well, obviously we do not know; although logic and reason alone would tell us that He did not create himself. We do, however, accept the fact that only belief in a God or an intelligent Being can account for creation. The law of irreversible atrophy alone informs us that creation is incapable of regenerating itself. Scientist will tell us that the earth or the cosmos is winding down and even if it were to implode and start the Big Bang all over again eventually it would reach the limits of doing just that.

So back to where did God come from? The answer is nowhere since that is by definition not His nature; nor is it a natural retrogression. However, it is our nature and that of creation to have come from somewhere. The point being, I don't have to posit God to believe in God that I can do intuitively. As with angels, I do not have to posit them, either, other than we know that nothing was created without Him, including angels. So, these sons of God of reference were His sons in a creative and spiritual sense, but not like His Only Begotten who proceeded from the bosom of Father or like we Born Again Christians who have be adopted into the family of God through His Spirit. (Romans 8:15)